This conversation is premiering on April 24th, 2025

In this episode, Neal Travis speaks with Jamey Lutz, author of Pathway to Purpose and longtime CX and culture expert, about how to move beyond “better sameness” and create truly differentiated customer experiences. They discuss the critical intersection between employee engagement and CX, the danger of copy-paste service models, and why purpose-led cultures drive lasting loyalty.

Key Topics Discussed

1. Escaping “Better Sameness”

Jamey challenges the idea that small incremental changes are enough:

“If we only focus on kind of better sameness… we’re just trying to keep up with the Joneses.”

He shares how companies like Netflix and Uber succeeded by imagining entirely new models — not just improving old ones.

Great experiences don’t copy the market — they reshape it.

2. Designing from Right to Left: Start with Outcomes

Instead of hoping that new experiences will drive results, start with the results:

“Let’s begin with the business outcomes we want — then build the experiences that drive those outcomes.”

Jamey advocates for “right to left” thinking — start with goals like loyalty or retention, then reverse-engineer customer behaviors and experiences that drive them.
Outcome-first thinking leads to experiences that actually move the needle.

3. Let the Customer Define Differentiation

A lot of service tweaks don’t matter to customers. The only way to know is to ask:

“We focus on what we think is differentiated… but we leave out the most important voice — the customer.”

Jamey emphasizes co-creating in a “lab” setting and evolving ideas with real feedback, not assumptions.

Don’t guess — collaborate with customers to discover what matters.

4. Culture as a Competitive Advantage

In his book Pathway to Purpose, Jamey outlines how irresistible cultures fuel performance:

“If you create an environment where employees are thrilled to be there, they’re going to go out of their way for customers.”

He explains how employee engagement, retention, and advocacy all lead to better customer outcomes — and how culture is often the deciding factor.

If your team wouldn’t advocate for your company, why would your customers?

5. Listening at All Levels — Especially the Frontline
Leaders can’t design great CX in isolation:

“If we’re making decisions without input from the people talking to our customers, we’re fooling ourselves.”

Jamey encourages creating systems to gather, elevate, and reward frontline feedback — even when ideas aren’t implemented.

Recognition builds voice — and voice builds better service.

Memorable Quotes

“Customers may not always be right, but in their mind, they are — and that’s what matters.”
“We don’t just want to build our way to irrelevance slowly.”
“If customers don’t know the value you’re bringing, you don’t get credit for it.”
“Recognition matters — even if you don’t roll the idea out, show that you listened.”

Takeaways

Don’t settle for incrementalism: Think big. Signature experiences come from bold, not safe, thinking.
Design backwards from impact: Start with the business result — then build the behaviors and experiences that deliver it.
Customer insight is non-negotiable: Ask them what’s working, what’s not, and what’s possible.
Culture and CX go hand in hand: Thriving employees create loyal customers — the data backs it up.
Your frontline is your best focus group: Create systems to capture and recognize their insights consistently.

Breaking the Mold with Jamey Lutz